I decided to move this contentious subject here to a new thread, rather than hijack someone elses thread on another subject.
The discussion will likely devolve quickly into a an unwinnable argument (not a debate). A person who I am guessing is an older white conservative American male, and who believes in conspiracy theories - a common malady in that group - responded to a comment of mine. He started talking about Al Gore and reciting debunked climate myths to support his denial of the evidence-backed reality of anthropogenic global warming and climate change (AGW/CC).
And BTW, Al Gore is a politician and not a climate scientist - I don't use him as a source for scientific information.)
For those who want a science-based website to learn more about the subject of global warming and climate change, RealClimate.org is a good place to begin.
Most of the fallacies, misunderstandings, bad science and tired climate myths that some people keep repeating endlessly are soundly debunked HERE at the Skeptical Science website.
Here are two more links, this time to "climate communication" websites. The first one is ClimateCommunication.org and the other is the Yale Project on Climate Change Communication which is part of the Yale University School of Forestry & Environmental Studies.
It was suggested that I follow the money in the AGW/CC controversy, and have done that - and track it regularly. At the end of the money trail I found the Koch brothers, two of the wealthiest people in the world, and the fossil fuel industry, a prodigiously profitable business. These folks were spending hundreds of millions of dollars to promote climate change denialism and tell lies. If you do indeed follow the money, this is where most of it is - going from these people to the "manufactured doubt" industry which is staffed by the same people and lawyers who said that smoking and asbesto are not harmful and other. More details about these campaigns of lies and deception HERE.
At the other end of the money trail, I found that most climate and other scientists are not upper class or getting rich - in fact many of them are doing field research in miserable conditions with long periods away from their homes and families - because of their love of science and their dedication to finding studying science. They know that if any one of could actually find evidence and demonstrate that anthropogenic global warming and climate change were not happening, they would earn a Nobel Prize and eternal fame. Scientists also know that if they fake results or pull any shenanigans and somehow manage to get published, their peers will shred the bad science with sound,logic and scince-based criticism. Most scientists are really tough on each other, and don't tolerate the publication of bad science without jumping on it and demolishing it.
Unfortunately, discovery that global warming is not happening is not going to happen. Many of the thousands of climate and earth system research scientists around the world work hard just to make a living and support their families while following their passion for science - and often have difficulty getting enough funding to finance their research. (That's what most grants are used for - not as personal income supplements.)
I recognize that psychologically, it is not possible to argue with a person who believes in conspiracy theories, because anything you say becomes part of the conspiracy.
All I can do is to keep following the science and hope that most of you will do the same.
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Alas, I am not the smartest guy in the room.
I defer to really smart guys who know their stuff and learn from them. You don't have to be as smart as the scientists to understand their work and the evidence they present to us. I'm just an honest, sincere person who, like many of my peers, does my homework - and the supplementary reading. That way I'm less likely to make a fool out of myself by posting information that is demonstrably wrong. I am also not prone to believing unsupported or poorly supported conspiracy theories. So one commenter was correct about me here - I am indeed less gullible because I try to rely on critical thinking and not emotions and cultural prejudices.
Not one of the commenters in this thread who has taken the "denialist" position - and I know that some of them are probably more intelligent than me - has documented their false claims or acknowledged the sound debunking of them.
Denial in the face of overwhelming evidence - and the related psychological need for confirmation bias - are powerful human traits. Those under the influence of such conditions are not easily swayed - knowledge and evidence don't work with them.
Over time, I plan to try to find out what various groups in Panama think about AGW/CC and engage with some college instructors and students here who are studying the problem. I am curious about what changes in climate and weather the experts say we are likely to see, but the resilience and positive attitude of the Panamanian people give me at least a bit of comfort. My initial "opinion" based on my training as an ecologist and conservationist with a recent climate science course under my belt - is that Panama may suffer less than many other regions around the globe,and that was another factor in deciding to live here. I will bring my findings here to ning for discussion, but not open the can of worms that is the subject of cliate denial. That is a separate and extremely contentious issue, as this thread so clearly demonstrates.
The world of science, many major global businesses (other than the fossil fuel sector), major banks and investors, all acknowledge the reality and seriousness of man-caused global warming and related changes to the climate. We will still have denialists popping up in any discussion to spout their already debunked myths and misinformation, and I will try to avoid engaging them and derailing otherwise productive discussions.
This thread is no longer productive or informative, so I will close it with this appropriate cartoon from Doonesbury...
There is no dispute whether or not climate change is happening. Surface and ocean temperatures, along with CO2 levels in the atmosphere are rising. Only the misinformed will argue those two facts. The debate is whether or not humans are contributing to it. Apparently you are not aware of this. I have no time for this degree of ignorance. I do believe I will check out of this thread with this thought-
"Treat the Earth well: it was not given to you by your parents,
It was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth
from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our children."
Ancient Indian Proverb
They have Casinos now to rob the white man so I guess it did.
Kelvin...this is what I agree with , just as you say...I contend the Humans are NOT causing it , or the 95-98% of it....planet is...and sun is the cause...volcanoes are also a cause...we cannot tax the sun nor the volcanoes to stop impacting...and CO2 is not causing it , CO2 is a result.
I am checking out of this thread also...based on the fact that everyone has their opinion , and a discussion like this will not change anyones mind.
Actually Kelvin an old Indian did not say that, Science has proven it first came out in a Hallmark greeting card.
Actually, Panamanians are quite concerned about, and aware of, climate change, particularly in this region, because of consequential effects on agricultural production.
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