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Pantah's Discussions
customs broker
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- How are you involved in Boquete?
- I live here
Comment Wall (3 comments)
- At 6:45pm on October 28, 2008,
Regina Potenza said… - Thanks for the info on Boquete. Nice talking to you.
- At 10:54am on October 25, 2008,
Linda said… - I received your email yesterday. You are considering Lake Chapala and I am considering Boquete!
- At 3:33pm on September 19, 2008,
Peter L. Rosenberg said… - PANAMA VS. MEXICO: IS THE GRASS REALLY GREENER THERE?
For the last few years, International Living and other sources have named Panama as the #1 place in the world to retire. Having become a little disenchanted with the north shore of Lake Chapala, my wife, Sally, and I decided to check our Panama for ourselves. We spent 8 exhaustive days doing extensive research on practically every aspect of life and here is what we discovered.
Of primary importance to me, as a diabetic and having had a heart attack 14 years ago, was medical. The larger cities such as Panama City and David have major hospitals with the latest technology and American trained doctors that speak English. In PC, there is even a John Hopkins. However, away from the major cosmopolitan areas, there seems to be only small clinics with a general practitioner and no specialists. Any emergency, such as a heart attack, would require a 45 minute to an hour ambulance ride to a hospital if you lived in an area like Boquete or Volcan where most of the expats reside, and nearly no place did they have an ambulance outside the closest large city.
Here, at Lakeside, we do have specialists and clinics that can handle most types of emergencies and far more choices than available in most of the retirement communities of Panama. From this aspect, our area is better medically.
One of the biggest attractions to Panama, though, is the cost of medical facilities and supplies. After checking several pharmacies, nearly all my many medications were anywhere from 1/3 to mostly around ½ the price of what I pay here. Doctors are far less expensive as well. To give you an idea, Sally and I both became very sick with severe colds and she insisted we go see a doctor. It turns out the main hospital that is used by nearly all the Americans in the David area was only 4 blocks from our hotel. Being the weekend, none of the doctors were in their offices so we ended up in the emergency room. We both saw a doctor who took our blood pressure, temperatures, checked our throats, and listened to our chests and backs. He then prescribed each of us different medications. Total cost for the two of us was $9.06. Prices for Panamanian health care certainly was an attractive feature.
Our second biggest concern was the weather. Panama City, where we started out, was extremely hot and extremely humid. It was impossible to walk more than a block or two without needing a shower. The same could pretty much be said for most of the country unless you got higher up in the mountains. These were the areas of particular interest to us.
About an hour to an hour and a half, respectively, from Panama City, were two villages called Sora and El Valle. Both were up in the mountains, had cool weather, a comfortable level of humidity, got around 80" of rain a year, and were about 45 minutes from some very beautiful beaches. While a few retirees did live there, most of the homes were owned by Panamanians as a weekend getaway from the city. Both the communities were completely isolated, 30 minutes from a grocery store, and any shopping, movies, etc. would require that hour plus ride to Panama City. This may suit some people but it was not for us.
The two areas we figured that would be the most interest were Volcan and Boquete, both high in the mountains outside of David, Panama’s second largest city, and not too far from Costa Rica. Volcan weather was nearly identical to what we have here with a year round spring time temperature range and low humidity. It is just now being discovered with several new developments going in. Boquete, the number one choice of retirees was a little lower in elevation and therefore a little warmer and a little more humid although most homes there do not have heat or air. Either community would provide the comfortable weather we all enjoy here at Lakeside.
Domestic help was also less expensive in Panama. Both maids and gardeners get a mere $1.25 an hour which is Panamanian minimum wage. A real plus for a retiree.
Other Pluses for Panama include a retiree card that gets you major discounts on nearly everything. Restaurants are 25% off, attractions 50% off, medical discounts, 25% of plane tickets, etc. Sally showed her driver’s license, without us having this Panamanian card, and most places gave us the same benefits which we thought was great. Another big advantage is that if you buy or build a new residence, you are tax exempt for 20 years. And, the currency is the American dollar so no worries about exchange rates.
The above are the real attractions for living in Panama. Lower medical costs, lower domestic help, large discounts on most items if you are a retiree, possibly no taxes for 20 years, and places that offer similar weather to what we have here. So, what made us decide that Panama is not for us and the grass is still greener on Lake Chapala?
The Panamanians are not the friendly people you read about on the web sites. We were given horrible directions from the airport to our B&B and got lost in Panama City. Several people were asked for help, in both Spanish and English, and all just gave us dirty looks and walked away. Nowhere in the world had we ever had people refuse to give directions to us except for Panama.
People walk in front of you, bump into you, and so on without anyone ever saying “Con Permisso” or “excuse me”. Sally and I must have said “Gracias” hundreds of times and in two weeks there heard “De nada” exactly 3 times. At the all inclusive we stayed at our last 4 days, the bar tenders would serve their fellow Panamanians ahead of an American or a Canadian even though we were there first. The people at the Toyota service department would not even come out to talk to us and when I asked for someone that speaks English, they all walked away and were never seen again.
Unlike the Mexicans which for the most part are friendly, gracious, and helpful people, the Panamanians were just plain downright rude.
When it came to shopping, the only things we found cheaper there, than here, were appliances and electronics. These were equivalent to US prices without all the extra taxes put on by the Mexican government. However, these are very occasional purchases while the every day needs were more expensive.
One of our biggest letdowns was the price of groceries, especially fruits and vegetables. This beautiful country with rich volcanic soil, lots of rain, and lots of sunshine. grows very little there. As a matter of fact, along the entire drive from Panama City to the Costa Rica border, everything was natural vegetation and we saw a few cattle grazing and no farms. That meant nearly everything is imported and the prices and quality reflected it.
Basically, everywhere we went, from the large cities to the farmer markets, most produce was nearly double what we pay here and the quality was pathetic. Lettuce was the size of baseballs, tomatoes were either green or rotten, bananas were turning brown, and mushrooms were brown and cost $3.05 a pound.
Meat in Panama runs about the same price as here whether in a local butcher shop or in a store like Price Smart, a subsidiary of Costco. However, the quality of the meat in that country leaves a lot to be desired whether it is chicken, pork, or beef. Except for hamburgers, every piece of meat we had in restaurants and at the all inclusive was tougher than shoe leather. The retirees that live there all say that is pretty typical of the meats available.
Panama City does offer three large air conditioned malls that have all the standard stores. The new “mall” in David is a joke with a few stores and non air conditioned along with a small movie theater that gets their movies even later than we do. However, they have nothing on our malls in Guadalajara. The one good thing is that the larger grocery stores, like Rey, do have many American products at much lower prices than we pay here locally.
Housing is no bargain. The prices are pretty similar to here for a resale and about the same for building. And, from what everyone has told me, building has all the same problems as we have here. Condos, whether in a new high rise in Panama City or on a beach, will also be similar in cost. A lot in most of the new developments in the mountains, ranging from 1/4 acre to 2 acres will typically run between $65,000 and $300,000 with building costs around $90 a square foot built to American specifications. Of course, we also looked at a small fixer upper for $20,000.
Restaurants range from a local lunch for $2.50 to gourmet restaurants with US prices. Panama City, like Guadalajara, offers the full gamut from local fare to all the fast food chains to gourmet restaurants from around the world with New York City prices.
The town of Sora has nothing while El Valle has a couple of good restaurants with a variety of fare. David has many Panamanian restaurants as well as a McDonalds, a KFC, and a TGIF while Volcan has one decent place to eat. Boquete has several good places to dine but with higher than American prices. Breakfast for two cost us $16 at a local coffee shop and lunch consisting of a french onion soup, a burger, and a salad was over $20 at a local hotel restaurant that came recommended.
The Food in Panama was definitely not to our liking. The Panamanians do not like anything spicy so all the food is either extremely bland or salty as heck. Salt and soy sauce seem to be the only things they seem to use.
Our favorite restaurants are Chinese and we went to three of them. Each only served lo mein, chop suey, chow mein, egg foo young, one or two sweet and sour dishes, fried rice, and wonton soup. None had anything on their menu that was the least bit spicy such as hot and sour soup, kung pao, mongolian beef, etc. and not one had chinese mustard. And all the meat, like in the rest of Panama, was tough and full of grizzle.
Even in the grocery stores and markets, it is nearly impossible to find things such as hot peppers, hot sauces, and so on.
Mexican food, on a scale of 1 to 10, would be high up while we would rate Panama’s food as a 1, just as a courtesy.
Driving in Panama is a real adventure and worse than here in Mexico. While the roads are certainly better and there are few tolls to drive anywhere in the country, the Panamanians display the same rudeness in their driving as they do in general.
In Panama City, driving there would be equated to being in a constant glorietta in Guadalajara. Drivers go every which way, no matter what lane they are in, buses pull out without concern who is there because they are bigger, and everyone beeps their horn consistently. Besides having to drive super defensively, finding your way around the city is pretty difficult. A decent map of PC is non-existent as are most road signs. Directions are given by landmarks like: Look for the white church and make a right. At McDonalds, make a left. Go a few blocks and at the internet café make a right, etc.
Once on the highways out of town, the common practice is “do not change lanes no matter what”. Everyone picks a lane and stays in it, even if they are in the left lane doing 20 kilometers an hour in a 100 kilometer an hour speed zone. Practically no one will move over for a faster approaching vehicle. You cannot get bored because you are constantly switching lanes.
We also have to give the government credit for not wasting their money on decent street lights or warning signs. We would be driving along, going over a hill, and suddenly there would be a small barricade with workers on the other side. Or, we would go to pass someone and suddenly find a crew patching the holes in the road with no sign whatsoever. More than once we had to slam on the brakes or swerve to avoid running over a barricade or men working. And, some of the main roads, like the one to the airport, the street lights were so dim they served no purpose at all and road signs were either not lit or were so dimly lit they still were not visible.
Probably the biggest factor of why we decided the grass is greener here is the isolation and lack of entertainment in Panama. If we were to consider Boquete or Volcan, there are no movie theaters, no little theater, no organizations such as the American Legion, etc. Basically, there is nothing to do in these communities. A 45 minute to an hour drive puts you in David where there is a movie theater and a casino but no other forms of entertainment. So, that leaves the beaches and Panama City. Nice beaches are a 3 hour drive away and one not so nice about an hour. Panama City is at least a five and one half hour drive and that is it.
In the big city, there are the good restaurants, lots of nightclubs and discos, shopping malls, and casinos. Other than this, there really is not a lot to do here either.
Compare this to Lakeside where there is live entertainment for listening and dancing every night of the week. A movie theater right here in town, our dynamite little theater, all the activities through LCS and the American Legion, and all our fiestas and it is nearly impossible not to have something to do.
Guadalajara has a lot more to offer than Panama City in the way of restaurants and entertainment. Many restaurants have live music. There are theaters like the one at Galerias Mall that have IMAX and recliner chairs with waiter service. Bowling alleys, bullfights, the zoo, nightclubs and discos galore, and some great shows at the convention center. Ballet folklorica and all the world famous entertainers that perform in Guadalajara make it a far more exciting place than Panama City or any other city in Panama. And all this just 45 minutes from Lake Chapala.
From here, we can easily visit a multitude of interesting and historic towns and cities. Within an easy drive are places like Mazamitla, Mazanillo, Puerto Vallarta, Patzcuaro, Morelia, Uruapan, Zacatecas, Guanajuato, Tapalpa, and hundreds more. And, we like the fact that the US border is just a few hours drive away.
Retiring in Panama is for those that like to be isolated from the rest of the world and for those who really prefer a sedentary lifestyle. Retiring in this part of Mexico is like being on a cruise ship. We can lay around and do nothing or we can be as active as we want nearly 24 hours a day or anywhere in between.
Panama has a lot to offer certain people. For us, the grass is greener at Lakeside.
Peter L. Rosenberg
Paseo De La Loma 200
San Juan Cosala
387-761-0798
mexicanseahorse1948@yahoo.com
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