Please forgive the length and nature of this post.....but I am alarmed. I am very grateful to Boquete Hospice for all they do for us, including the recent document sent out about the process that happens when someone dies at home here in Panama. I have a few questions and have asked Hospice for some clarification. When I lived in Ecuador a good friend's husband died in bed next to her one night and her experience was horrific with the officials and process.
Perhaps people on this forum have experienced someone passing away while in the home, and can provide some answers to me, since I am considering bringing my 87 year old mother here to live out the rest of her life with me. I'd like to be prepared.
I understand that Drs. Chen, Osborne or Mondul must pronounce the person deceased....I hope one of them is available when this happens.
I understand that the death certificate is issued by the Tribunal Electoral office in Boquete, which is open between 7:30 am and 3:30 pm Monday through Friday.
I understand that the funeral home cannot be called to remove the body until this document is obtained.
My questions are:
1. If death occurs on one of the long holiday weekends, this could mean a body would stay in the home for up to 84 hours. I know that the custom here is to keep the body overnight so that family and friends can attend a wake, but if the death occurs say on Friday at 5 pm on a long holiday weekend, that means the body would stay in the home until Tuesday morning. This seems a health hazard to me, as well as a terrible emotional problem for the surviving spouse or others close to the deceased.
2. If 3 Panamanian witnesses are needed to go get the death certificate, what happens if you can't obtain 3 Panamanians? Do they need to witness the death?
3. It seems "another form is necessary which gives permission to cremate or bury the body"..what is that "other form" and where do we get it?
I know that our Living Will and Health Care Surrogate documents from the US are no good here, and I have created the Panama version with my attorney, and have them on file with Hospital Chiriqui. As a single person without a spouse to notify family in the US, I have a designated person here and have created a form of Emergency Information that I have shared with Hospice. So, I thought I had everything covered. However, this new information about the process to obtain the death certificate and the need for written permission to dispose of the body, and the need for 3 Panamanian witnesses has put me in a quandary about what would happen should my mother die at home here.
This hospice document is very helpful....but if anyone has experience and knows about these forms and requirements questions, I'd like them to share it with me. No one lives forever....and I've learned so many lessons about living in Panama in my 7 years here....this is one I'd prefer to really understand and be prepared for. Anyone who can help, you can contact me at chiriquiwoman@gmail.com or 6948-8255 or 730-8255 if you don't want to post it here. I'm desperately seeking information.....
Thank you,
Penny Ripple
Replies
Just so I understand the convoluted comments you are making. Please clarify for me, are you saying that no one from another county should own or operate a business in Panama? Would you apply this to the US as well?
Lynnie English, you purposely trolled for Boquete Hospice information so you could pick it apart and trash the difficult, dedicated work of others. My post was directed at you, not the subject matter. How any organization in Boquete functions is really none of your concern, as you don't live here and have no intention of doing so.
They do a wonderful job, Lynnie, in a country where the concept of hospice care is unknown. It's been an uphill battle, but they have persevered to establish a blood donor list (available to everyone), purchase needed medical equipment, provide comfort to families in end of life situations. Hospice is growing and serving more people all the time.This is truly a thankless job, and I admire everyone associated with it.
People generally count on their families to care for them when they are unwell. Unfortunately, most expats do not have family here. This was an expat initiative to take care of each other in times of illness or disability. I think the initiative should be applauded rather than derided; otherwise, care would fall on an already overburdened Panamanian health system. As the website notes, Hospice hopes to expand to help those Panamanians who do not have family to step in in times of need. I know of several instances, in fact, where Hospice HAS helped Panamanians with medical supplies such as hospital beds, ventilators, etc.
Goes to show how you do jump too wrong conclusions, I do in fact live here, own a home in Boquete and have for some time. I also have intimate knowledge of the service. One thing is correct, I didn't like your posting.
This is direct from the Director of Forensic Medicine, the Coroner in David.
The procedure is somewhat complicated,
but not difficult. If someone in the house dies, you call either the
police or 911 (ambulance).
When they arrive, they will call either the Personero or Fiscal
Delegada. The Personero or Fiscal Delegada upon arrival, will look at
the deceased. If the death appears to be of natural causes (i.e., no
evidence of a violent or traumatic death), they will ask if the
deceased has been seeing a doctor. If so, they will contact the
doctor to find out if that doctor will sign a clinical finding on the
deceased. If not, then (currently) they will take the body to the
morgue. Under the new system (Sep 2013), they will ask for the names
of 3 people acquainted with the deceased that can testify to the
deceased's condition.
The body will not, under any circumstances, remain in the house. It
will be taken away immediately. A body in this heat will not be
pleasant to have around for long.
The Personero or Fiscal Delegada will tell them what they need to do,
but it culminates in obtaining a death certificate from the T.E. US
Citizens should contact the local warden or the US Embassy to report
the death (the Embassy will want their passport and copy of the death
certificate).
A funeral home can help with the rest of the process of either of
cremation, burial, or preparation for shipment to the US.
I'm not sure how things ever got so turned around that someone would
have to keep a body in the house for days, and the local authorities
would not look kindly on their not being informed promptly. These
folks are on call 24x7x365, and should be called immediately.
If someone is rushed to the hospital: if they arrive dead, the police
will notify the Personero or Fiscal Delegada, they won't enter the
hospital and the rest of the process is similar to a death at home.
If they die in the hospital, the hospital will help the family through
the rest.
There is a lot more to it from a paperwork standpoint, but there are
folks to help (Personero, Fiscal Delegada, Funeral Home). Nothing to
panic over.
Thank you for you usual hard work and great contacts at clarifying this issue. The Medical Examiner/Coroner for Chiriqui Province is THE correct authority and I appreciate you tracking dhow the REAL information and sharing it with us.
I am not sure why all the sniping and arguments have surfaced on this subject but I am sorry Hospice is the target of negative comments. It is a fabulous effort by hardworking and dedicated ExPats who have experience and open hearts. We who have lived here for a long time appreciate the wonderful addition of organizations like Hospice. I am beyond grateful for them and their work.
And to you,my friend for getting the correct information out on what is to be done when someone dies at home.
Penny
Thank you so much Lee for that thorough information. Is 911 correct? I didn't think Panama had 911. Could it be another number?
You are not alone in not knowing about 911. 911 started in P.C. several years ago and spread thru out the country. We just returned from Santa Fe and Tole today and both places had a 911 office set-up in town, with a ambulance and staff on site. David has several 911 ambulances and Conception has one. Rodney should know all about this...............
In Panama 911 is only ambulance service and was a public initiative that came thru because of a TELETON held on December some years ago. People donated money to the Teleton and all the ambulances were bought by the CLUB ACTIVO 20-30 the organizers of the Teleton. Government compromise was to follow up with this initial work done by the people who was requesting this kind of service.
As Gene said it started first in Panama City and Colon City and little by little they are spreading to other cities in Panama.
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